Altec Symbiotic vs GPA Pascalite 'phrams

**Ronald Lee** · July 2nd, 2010, 05:04 AM

I am just curious. Is the Pascalite similar or the same as the Altec Symbiotic.

**Old Guy** · July 2nd, 2010, 08:19 AM

Very different

The Symbiotik has a mylar surround

Pascalite is aluminum

You seem to think Pascalite is a GPA thing? Are you aware Altec made the Pascalites originally?

**Cal Weldon** · July 2nd, 2010, 10:04 AM

The symbiotik surround seems to be listed listed as Kapton (polymide) not Mylar (polyester). Both patents of DuPont mind you.

I've always wondered why Altec called it Pascalite. Was the aluminum really extracted from the Pascalite clay or is this just a marketing thing? Where did the aluminum for the Symbiotik's come from, Boxite or Pascalite?

**bowtie427ss** · July 2nd, 2010, 10:44 AM

Bauxite.

Wiki defines it as "the most important aluminum ore"

Cal, your post inspired me to do some reading, i learned things i never knew i wanted to know. Seems Pascalite is used as some sort of miracle healing powder, much akin to ground yak horn, or rhinocerous spleens.

There's even a Pascalite website: Index

It seems in the past where Altec diaphragms are concerned i've seen it said that pascalite is simply "hardened" aluminum, honestly don't remember if it was ever determined if it's an altogether different alloy, or just aluminum that's undergone some sort of hardening process.

**Cal Weldon** · July 2nd, 2010, 10:49 AM

Whoops, did I really spell it Boxite? Hehe.

**Ronald Lee** · July 2nd, 2010, 11:20 AM

So is there any advantage of using a pascalite over an standard aluminum 'phram?

I remember years ago like in the mid-1970s, the standard aluminum 'phram had like a 10 watt rating, but Altec rated alum 'phram freq response out to 20kH. The symbiotic 'phram was rated at 30 watts but the freq response was only out to 15kH. I believe the symbiotic was intended mostly for PA applications, whereas the aluminum was used for music applications.

Does GPA make symbiotik diaphragms for the small Altec drivers.

**magnarc** · July 2nd, 2010, 11:50 AM

AFAIK no-one makes Symbiotiks anymore. You see them on eBay every so often.

Honestly IMHO the Pascalites sound far better than the Symbiotiks, handle more power and you can still get them new, as opposed to used in unknown condition on eBay.

**Old Guy** · July 2nd, 2010, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Ronald Lee

So is there any advantage of using a pascalite over an standard aluminum 'phram?

I remember years ago like in the mid-1970s, the standard aluminum 'phram had like a 10 watt rating, but Altec rated alum 'phram freq response out to 20kH. The symbiotic 'phram was rated at 30 watts but the freq response was only out to 15kH. I believe the symbiotic was intended mostly for PA applications, whereas the aluminum was used for music applications.

Does GPA make symbiotik diaphragms for the small Altec drivers.

The Symbiotik was discontinued and replaced by the Pascalite.

Essentially, the Pascalite is a tougher version of the aluminum fram with a a high temperature former for the voice coil. The concept was to have better highs and more power handling together.

Symbiotiks are only available used or NOS.

I would use aluminum for hi fi and Pascalite in pro apps.

Honestly, Altec one inchers in pro apps make no sense to me...a BMS will sound better and live longer for cheaper.

Radian makes essentially a Symbiotik fram, better due to newer tech. Handles more power than the Pascalite, the Pascalite sounds better.

Regarding the surround material, like Pascalite is still aluminum, just a brand, the stuff is Mylar, just a variant. I should call it by it's proper name perhaps, but can't see a good reason to bother with the effort.

**Audio_by_Goodwill** · July 2nd, 2010, 01:54 PM

How long have those Radian "Symbiotiks" been around? I took the cover off of one of my 808-8A's awhile back and I questioned if it was an Altec diaphragm. They came from my church, and were out of regular use for years, so I doubt they'd have anything of recent manufacture in them....... and by recent, I mean the last 10 to 15 years.

I don't even know hoe long Radian has been around....... any other non-Altec Symbiotiks?

**Cal Weldon** · July 2nd, 2010, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Old Guy

Regarding the surround material, like Pascalite is still aluminum, just a brand, the stuff is Mylar, just a variant. I should call it by it's proper name perhaps, but can't see a good reason to bother with the effort.

Mylar = DuPonts trade name for polyester sheet used in window tinting film and emergency blankets.
Kapton = Duponts trade name for a polymide used a lot in voice coil formers.

Mylar not = to polymides. Mylar is a polyethylene chain based product. (I believe)